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Post by Wallace907 on Feb 17, 2015 20:04:26 GMT
Just saw this by J and J's nemesis, StemDynasty. He thinks there is something more to Teva dumping Biotime just before they were to begin AMD trials. He pointed to past deals with Teva put together by Wotton and LeRoux I can't say anything other than it is net positive for Ocata, nonetheless. www.antarespharma.com/products/partnership-products/ As far as I know, it was just a cheap option contract similar to what you'd expect a non-profit or university to "land". I don't think there's anything to take from it as they really aren't cutting a paid program or anything, I don't even know if any money actually exchanged hands. |
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Post by rickrick on Feb 17, 2015 20:53:56 GMT
Certainly possible, and I think OCAT certainly has a better AMD program than BTX. So yes, good news.
I just don't think you can read more into it than that. I haven't been on Icell today, but it wouldn't surprise me if some are predicting a JV with Teva based on today's news. Speculation will continue to happen on everything...
IMO, the better long term plan for OCAT is to do whatever they need to - even if it means doing another deal with Lincoln - to produce Phase 2 efficacy results before partnering the RPE program (SMD or AMD) in either the US or EU. Once OCAT has the power of Phase 2 efficacy data (only 12-16 months away after this long road) they should be able to sign a lucrative deal.
I agree, you can't read too much into it, however, if TEVA has analysed the case for OCAT RPE, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that they would have taken a hard look at OCATs other programs, perhaps as a favor to PW and their past relationship at his previous co. I hope for everyone that the posters saying something is about to happen are finally right. Here's my pre congratulations to all if something is about to happen  |
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Post by asopfabl on Feb 17, 2015 21:36:09 GMT
One investor on Icell personally knows a ACT's patient who was enrolled one year ago. She has astonishing results. Sue's neighbor bought millions shares after seeing her amazing results. Given such late stage, I am sure there are also many unsuccessful cases such as Maurie. She stated that SMD was running in her family and she may need a special gene therapy. Hi Inna... As someone that does not find my way over to Icell all that often, could you elaborate on the individual that has "astonishing results". Has the poster who "personally knows" provided any proof or details related to the patients story? The only individual we are really aware of that had what I would deem to be astonishing results, would be the cowboy. If Ocata was able to show that his visual recovery was not a fluke, that would be huge. Thanks, I appreciate your time. |
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Post by Keybridge - Cult Member 003 on Feb 17, 2015 22:07:08 GMT
I agree, you can't read too much into it, however, if TEVA has analysed the case for OCAT RPE, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that they would have taken a hard look at OCATs other programs, perhaps as a favor to PW and their past relationship at his previous co. Maybe Teva wasn't confident in Cell cure's IP position relative to the competition. And maybe Cell Cure reacted by saying "look here, we have a patent that is about to issue!" We have to recall that the terms of the Teva/Biotime agreement were lopsided in favor of Teva. If Teva was wiling to walk form the agreement, then there must have been something they really felt uncomfortable with - either the IP, cost of development, and/or marketability of the Biotime RPE program. It would be interesting to know what the advantage of the one patent issued to Biotime, but my guess is Teva has known about it for some time and didn't see any remedial value. Like the Wotton/Jooste angle with Teva - kind of makes sense given the timing, since Jooste had just joined the company a few months earlier and all of a sudden the company is acting like everything's in a state of play. |
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Post by sheikyabooty on Feb 17, 2015 22:12:48 GMT
I agree, you can't read too much into it, however, if TEVA has analysed the case for OCAT RPE, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that they would have taken a hard look at OCATs other programs, perhaps as a favor to PW and their past relationship at his previous co. I hope for everyone that the posters saying something is about to happen are finally right. Here's my pre congratulations to all if something is about to happen PW is the one who has said something will happen by Q2. All I said was TEVA likely compared BTX RPE with OCATs which led to their decision to not continue with BTX. In doing so, they likely took a look at OCATs other programs. PWs old company had TEVA as a partner so it's not unrealistic to think that he has a relationship with their top people. |
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Post by rickrick on Feb 18, 2015 2:07:50 GMT
I hope for everyone that the posters saying something is about to happen are finally right. Here's my pre congratulations to all if something is about to happen PW is the one who has said something will happen by Q2. All I said was TEVA likely compared BTX RPE with OCATs which led to their decision to not continue with BTX. In doing so, they likely took a look at OCATs other programs. PWs old company had TEVA as a partner so it's not unrealistic to think that he has a relationship with their top people. Yes, I didn't mean to imply towards you I just went ahead and grabbed your post to give a pre grats to anyone saying this is it. I can't deny the timing is interesting, Teva, pulling the offering, new hires etc..... Really hope something goes pop it's been a long wait. I'm not holding my breath yet, just hoping for the best. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 3:56:12 GMT
I just did a huge merger, moving all the posts about the Teva/CellCure deal termination from the "Ocata Withdraws Offering" to this thread. No one did anything wrong, but since they are both big topics I thought it would be best to keep the conversation. Thanks!
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 4:32:06 GMT
I am seeing a different side than some to this Teva/Cell Cure deal termination. BTX was just awarded a patent that gives them freedom to work in the same space as OCAT. A few changes were likely made in the derivation process to avoid a patent clash with OCAT, but in the end BTX's cells are almost identical to OCAT's and now BTX has their own version of hRPE to move forward with.
As for why Teva didn't extend their deal, it could be for many reasons. The deal was horrible for BTX/Cell Cure, which is probably why the market seemed to like this news. Maybe Teva saw OCAT's P1 results and felt that they didn't want to pursue it anymore. Maybe they decided that there is more promise in gene therapy over hRPEs. Obviously I don't know for sure and am just throwing ideas out there. It's hard to believe that Teva would give up their sweet deal with Cell Cure and jump ship to OCAT if some are trying to draw that conclusion from this. If I were an OCAT investor I would be hoping this wouldn't happen actually. Teva would not give up the sweet deal they had with BTX (which sucked for BTX) for a lesser deal with OCAT, imo. So if something happens between Teva and OCAT it will likely be a great deal for Teva, but not for OCAT.
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 4:36:21 GMT
One investor on Icell personally knows a ACT's patient who was enrolled one year ago. She has astonishing results. Sue's neighbor bought millions shares after seeing her amazing results. Given such late stage, I am sure there are also many unsuccessful cases such as Maurie. She stated that SMD was running in her family and she may need a special gene therapy. inna, it sounds like you are saying that gene therapy is a superior treatment over hRPEs. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 4:41:49 GMT
Ridda, just to let you know I moved this to the Ocata Discussion 1.0 thread. Yeah I saw this and just posted it in the BTX forum here. This could be potentially big news for a few different reasons. Teva had a pretty sweet deal, so I wonder why they wouldn't extend the agreement with Cell Cure to develop OpRegen. Maybe they had patent concerns? If they had patent concerns prior they wouldn't any more since the newly issued patent has given BTX/Cure Cell the ability to work freely in the space. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 4:43:13 GMT
The timing for this one couldn't get any better... Would Teva want to work with the OCAT? I know nothing about Teva, so any summary would be great. Kipper, see my post above. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 4:47:31 GMT
Just saw this by J and J's nemesis, StemDynasty. He thinks there is something more to Teva dumping Biotime just before they were to begin AMD trials. He pointed to past deals with Teva put together by Wotton and LeRoux I can't say anything other than it is net positive for Ocata, nonetheless. www.antarespharma.com/products/partnership-products/ Agree. Good news for OCAT IMO as any time a potential competitor uncouples with a well funded partner, that's the only way I think you can take it.
Hard to draw any other definitive conclusions beyond that, IMO.
I agree it is hard to draw conclusions on why Teva bailed. What we do know though is that Cell Cure just received IP protection to work in the same space as OCAT with virtually the same identical method of treatment. I doubt the execs at OCAT are popping corks over that. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 4:50:41 GMT
I agree, you can't read too much into it, however, if TEVA has analysed the case for OCAT RPE, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that they would have taken a hard look at OCATs other programs, perhaps as a favor to PW and their past relationship at his previous co. Maybe Teva wasn't confident in Cell cure's IP position relative to the competition. And maybe Cell Cure reacted by saying "look here, we have a patent that is about to issue!" Wouldn't Teva had known that before the original agreement though? You'd think with the deal they had they'd be happy with today's patent. |
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Post by CM kipper007 on Feb 18, 2015 4:55:15 GMT
One investor on Icell personally knows a ACT's patient who was enrolled one year ago. She has astonishing results. Sue's neighbor bought millions shares after seeing her amazing results. Given such late stage, I am sure there are also many unsuccessful cases such as Maurie. She stated that SMD was running in her family and she may need a special gene therapy. inna, it sounds like you are saying that gene therapy is a superior treatment over hRPEs. Gene therapy wouldn't replace lost RPE cells and it doesn't sound to me like one is better then the other, more complementary to each other. |
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Post by CM kipper007 on Feb 18, 2015 5:14:01 GMT
Agree. Good news for OCAT IMO as any time a potential competitor uncouples with a well funded partner, that's the only way I think you can take it.
Hard to draw any other definitive conclusions beyond that, IMO.
I agree it is hard to draw conclusions on why Teva bailed. What we do know though is that Cell Cure just received IP protection to work in the same space as OCAT with virtually the same identical method of treatment. I doubt the execs at OCAT are popping corks over that. To me it just validates the treatment even more. Ocat doesn't need to treat the entire population to turn a profit, they only need a small percentage and they'd still struggle to meet demand. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 5:46:51 GMT
I agree it is hard to draw conclusions on why Teva bailed. What we do know though is that Cell Cure just received IP protection to work in the same space as OCAT with virtually the same identical method of treatment. I doubt the execs at OCAT are popping corks over that. To me it just validates the treatment even more. Ocat doesn't need to treat the entire population to turn a profit, they only need a small percentage and they'd still struggle to meet demand. Good point Kipper, and I agree that it says something when other companies are trying to duplicate what it is you do. We just have to remember where Michael West came from. Not to open a can of worms again (and I seriously mean that), but I hope that the changes in Cell Cure's new patent compared to OCAT's weren't made to avoid the issues West was talking about with OCAT's patent last year in the SA interview. I haven't compared the patents and I think it would take some serious time and effort to do so. West is not dumb and dare I say pretty sly. The fact that he is pursuing the exact same indication with the exact same method as his former company, where he wrote a lot of the language in those patents, just gives me a funny feeling. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 5:50:48 GMT
I agree it is hard to draw conclusions on why Teva bailed. What we do know though is that Cell Cure just received IP protection to work in the same space as OCAT with virtually the same identical method of treatment. I doubt the execs at OCAT are popping corks over that. To me it just validates the treatment even more. Ocat doesn't need to treat the entire population to turn a profit, they only need a small percentage and they'd still struggle to meet demand. Nevertheless, I imagine they'd prefer to be the only company in the game. I also don't think that Ocata has changed its focus to become the leader in treatments for ophthalmologic disease to only capture a small percentage of the market. Partnerships down the road will help with the revving up and manufacturing on a large scale. |
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Post by forthefuture on Feb 18, 2015 6:21:15 GMT
To me it just validates the treatment even more. Ocat doesn't need to treat the entire population to turn a profit, they only need a small percentage and they'd still struggle to meet demand. Good point Kipper, and I agree that it says something when other companies are trying to duplicate what it is you do. We just have to remember where Michael West came from. Not to open a can of worms again (and I seriously mean that), but I hope that the changes in Cell Cure's new patent compared to OCAT's weren't made to avoid the issues West was talking about with OCAT's patent last year in the SA interview. I haven't compared the patents and I think it would take some serious time and effort to do so. West is not dumb and dare I say pretty sly. The fact that he is pursuing the exact same indication with the exact same method as his former company, where he wrote a lot of the language in those patents, just gives me a funny feeling. Not a lawyer or cell biologist but I imagine there are yet other ways to derive RPEs that may not be known. Some of these patents are going to be very tough to stop, but between manufacturing, delivery, and use patents, I think OCAT should have enough of a head start to slow down any competitors pretty significantly. A new RPE derivation method likely won't break OCAT. I would consider myself a pretty critical long of OCAT, but all in all, the Cell Cure development is net positive for OCAT by far. It's my opinion that the patent granted portion if their update was a bit of slight of hand to try to distract from the TEVA partnership loss. Unless the partnership would have crushed Biotime/Cell Cure, I would wager that it's a pretty huge loss for a $300M company to lose their $54B partner. |
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Post by HeyNow on Feb 18, 2015 6:37:05 GMT
Maybe Teva wasn't confident in Cell cure's IP position relative to the competition. And maybe Cell Cure reacted by saying "look here, we have a patent that is about to issue!" Wouldn't Teva had known that before the original agreement though? You'd think with the deal they had they'd be happy with today's patent. You would think. Evidently they see no value in investing in cell cures rpe clinical program, so they bailed. a lot has changed in the competitive landscape since they partnered. |
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Post by JHam on Feb 18, 2015 6:45:19 GMT
Good point Kipper, and I agree that it says something when other companies are trying to duplicate what it is you do. We just have to remember where Michael West came from. Not to open a can of worms again (and I seriously mean that), but I hope that the changes in Cell Cure's new patent compared to OCAT's weren't made to avoid the issues West was talking about with OCAT's patent last year in the SA interview. I haven't compared the patents and I think it would take some serious time and effort to do so. West is not dumb and dare I say pretty sly. The fact that he is pursuing the exact same indication with the exact same method as his former company, where he wrote a lot of the language in those patents, just gives me a funny feeling. Not a lawyer or cell biologist but I imagine there are yet other ways to derive RPEs that may not be known. Some of these patents are going to be very tough to stop, but between manufacturing, delivery, and use patents, I think OCAT should have enough of a head start to slow down any competitors pretty significantly. A new RPE derivation method likely won't break OCAT. I would consider myself a pretty critical long of OCAT, but all in all, the Cell Cure development is net positive for OCAT by far. It's my opinion that the patent granted portion if their update was a bit of slight of hand to try to distract from the TEVA partnership loss. Unless the partnership would have crushed Biotime/Cell Cure, I would wager that it's a pretty huge loss for a $300M company to lose their $54B partner. forthefuture, I was originally writing this as one more post to Kipper, but it pertains to what you just wrote as well. This is not like STEM's approach to testing AMD where it is completely different than OCAT. It is really identical. You have two companies doing identical methods of treatment for the same indication. I know some will make the argument about OCAT being years ahead of CC (Cell Cure). However, as we have seen with BCLI the IMoH is not so stingy or slow with awarding fast tracking. They are starting at P1/2a and if they show promise in the first data set they will almost certainly get fast tracked and maybe even some kind of breakthrough designation by that point. About CC losing their $54B partner. Normally I would agree, but not when the partnership is so one-sided in favor of Teva. I think Michael West knows exactly what he is doing and I wouldn't be surprised if the Teva termination is some how part of whatever plan he has. You mention the patent being used to distract from the the Teva loss. As seen below, West and Teva (they were privy to this info too) were aware of the status of the patent and knew when it would be issued. I find it more ironic that Teva would just so happen to cut ties with CC on the same day it was issued: portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair02-17-2015 Recordation of Patent Grant Mailed 01-27-2015 Issue Notification Mailed 02-17-2015 Patent Issue Date Used in PTA Calculation 01-20-2015 Mail ODM Petition Decision 01-16-2015 ODM Petition Decision 01-14-2015 Dispatch to FDC 01-14-2015 Dispatch to FDC 01-14-2015 Application Is Considered Ready for Issue12-29-2014 Issue Fee Payment Verified 01-07-2015 Mail Miscellaneous Communication to Applicant 01-06-2015 Printer Rush- No mailing 01-06-2015 Printer Rush- No mailing 01-06-2015 Miscellaneous Communication to Applicant - No Action Count 01-06-2015 Information Disclosure Statement considered 01-05-2015 Pubs Case Remand to TC 12-29-2014 Issue Fee Payment Received 12-17-2014 Sequence Forwarded to Pubs on Tape 12-02-2014 Information Disclosure Statement (IDS) Filed 12-05-2014 Mail Notice of Allowance... |
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