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Post by captsmith77 on Aug 4, 2021 19:22:16 GMT
I have a Friday appointment to get my first shot of the Moderna vaccine, but wanted opinions here first.
I'm not concerned about the side effects, which are said to last a day or two, but I am about the potential long term effects. To my knowledge, none of the vaccines are really approved by the FDA.
It's worth mentioning that I had the virus back in January of this year.
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Post by selluwud on Aug 4, 2021 19:47:46 GMT
I know it's my opinion only, but it draws on the knowledge of the smartest person I personally confer with....and that would be my daughter who is a PharmD (clinial Doctor of Pharmacy) with 5 years post grad education and 9 years of job experience. She can explain the method of action of the mRNA vaccines and why they are the better choice. She took the Pfizer formula as a pregnant woman when it wasn't approved as part of a trial study. She reasoned it would make more sense to take it than catching Covid and losing her baby. She says the biggest irony is the attitude of non-vaccinated people and the excuses they make, and then the chances they take with unapproved experimental drugs they willingly take once they are hospitalized with Covid-19. Go figure. Your chances of being killed in a car accident are greater than the danger you'll be exposed to from a Covid-19 vaccine. Please take it.
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Post by captsmith77 on Aug 4, 2021 19:52:44 GMT
Aren't the vaccines themselves experimental and unapproved though?
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Post by selluwud on Aug 4, 2021 19:58:44 GMT
Aren't the vaccines themselves experimental and unapproved though? They have been approved for emergency use. mRNA vaccines have been in development for over 5 years. The fed money was able to push it to finish line with their funding. I have no problem with it at all. It was trialed with over 30,000 patients.
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Post by lcd on Aug 4, 2021 20:03:42 GMT
My brother-in-law is a radiologist and provided what I consider a really good answer to your question. To summarize, it is true that because of the emergency use declaration that we don't know the long term risks of getting vaccinated, but there is no current evidence that there are long term complications. What we do know for certain, and he has witnessed first hand by reading hundreds of chest scans, is that there are known long term consequences of getting covid. He says that the lung damage he is seeing from patients in all age groups is like nothing else and that he is absolutely certain that many people who "fully recover" from covid will have complications later in life and some with early death due to the significant scarring of the lungs.
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Post by captsmith77 on Aug 4, 2021 20:10:57 GMT
My brother-in-law is a radiologist and provided what I consider a really good answer to your question. To summarize, it is true that because of the emergency use declaration that we don't know the long term risks of getting vaccinated, but there is no current evidence that there are long term complications. What we do know for certain, and he has witnessed first hand by reading hundreds of chest scans, is that there are known long term consequences of getting covid. He says that the lung damage he is seeing from patients in all age groups is like nothing else and that he is absolutely certain that many people who "fully recover" from covid will have complications later in life and some with early death due to the significant scarring of the lungs. The point about the lungs is actually a damn good one as I forgot about that. Back when I had covid, I was one of the lucky ones that didn't have issues with my lungs or breathing in general. The doctor that saw me in the hospital seemed relieved. I really don't care to get the virus in another form and meet a variant that sends me to the hospital with lung issues, so I think I'll keep my appointment. I've read that very few people that get one of the two vaccines have major complications with the virus should they get it, so that's one major plus I've considered.
I'm taking PTO next week, so my Friday shot shouldn't give me issues.
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Post by lcd on Aug 4, 2021 20:35:52 GMT
It is a very small sample size, but out of about 30 people I talked to, universally Moderna has worse side affects but it is almost always after the second shot. I got Pfizer and just had a dull headache starting about 24 hours after the second shot. Good luck.
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Post by magnus123 on Aug 4, 2021 20:51:09 GMT
I honestly think that it depends on age and other diseases that you may have. Risk/Reward for older people is obviously in favor of the vaccine. With younger populations and kids, the risk/reward is maybe a different one. There were also higher numbers of heart complications in 20-30 yo men. The question is then: How big is the risk of getting serious implications with Covid in this age, if you are healthy? Probably very very low. So, the risk/reward changes there f. e. If you remember, the swine flu vaccine also had some very damaging long term side effects that were unknown in the beginning.
Everyone in my family had Biontech and no one had serious side effects. But as being a young and healthy person myself in the mid twenties, I don't see a favorable risk/reward ratio for me. I don't know if I ever had Covid, because I never had symptoms and never made a test so far. If I had a serious disease or so, it would be a different case and I would likely take the vaccine.
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Post by magnus123 on Aug 4, 2021 22:05:14 GMT
I also think that the NVAX or Valneva vaccines are very interesting, because they use the well known and conservative approaches. NVAX seems to be highly effective.
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Post by selluwud on Aug 4, 2021 22:10:35 GMT
I had the Moderna series and had little to no side effects. I am 68 and do not want to experience the Covid or any other virus for that matter if I can help it. I remember having to have all the required vaccines and immunizations (polio & smallpox especially) before I could attend school, they were required and had to be recorded as proof. Sometimes the good of the many out weigh the self concerns of the few. Sorry.
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Post by magnus123 on Aug 4, 2021 23:49:28 GMT
I had the Moderna series and had little to no side effects. I am 68 and do not want to experience the Covid or any other virus for that matter if I can help it. I remember having to have all the required vaccines and immunizations (polio & smallpox especially) before I could attend school, they were required and had to be recorded as proof. Sometimes the good of the many out weigh the self concerns of the few. Sorry. The vaccine is of course great for your age. No question about it.
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 2:55:21 GMT
I know it's my opinion only, but it draws on the knowledge of the smartest person I personally confer with....and that would be my daughter who is a PharmD (clinial Doctor of Pharmacy) with 5 years post grad education and 9 years of job experience. She can explain the method of action of the mRNA vaccines and why they are the better choice. She took the Pfizer formula as a pregnant woman when it wasn't approved as part of a trial study. She reasoned it would make more sense to take it than catching Covid and losing her baby. She says the biggest irony is the attitude of non-vaccinated people and the excuses they make, and then the chances they take with unapproved experimental drugs they willingly take once they are hospitalized with Covid-19. Go figure. Your chances of being killed in a car accident are greater than the danger you'll be exposed to from a Covid-19 vaccine. Please take it.Agreed 10000%. Following and holding DYAI basically put me in school to learn about how recombinant vaccines work. During that time in the back of my mind I was always concerned that one day mRNA vaccines would probably replace recombinant vaccines, which is a big reason why I eventually moved on from DYAI. In that process though I started learning about Moderna and their methods as well. I think both methods are safe, efficacious, and imo at this point the only way we are going to get out of this situation. The rollout here in Japan has been awful. They let the Olympics dictate how they were going to approach the COVID response which in my opinion (and most others I talk to here) was a grave mistake. The vaccination rate is by far the lowest in the developed world (don't think we've even cracked 30% yet). They sat on the vaccines for a while and now, just when it is starting to build up steam, the doses are expiring. Every day we are setting new records of daily cases. It sucks and I really don't see how we get out of this. OK enough doom and gloom. I get my 2nd Moderna jab next week and I am excited about it. I had a little bit of a sore arm after the 1st one, but no big deal. I am expecting that I'll have worse side effects after the 2nd shot, but I'm not worried about that. A two-day fever is a small price to pay for not being hospitalized or dying from COVID.
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 3:34:40 GMT
I honestly think that it depends on age and other diseases that you may have. Risk/Reward for older people is obviously in favor of the vaccine. With younger populations and kids, the risk/reward is maybe a different one. There were also higher numbers of heart complications in 20-30 yo men. The question is then: How big is the risk of getting serious implications with Covid in this age, if you are healthy? Probably very very low. So, the risk/reward changes there f. e. If you remember, the swine flu vaccine also had some very damaging long term side effects that were unknown in the beginning. Everyone in my family had Biontech and no one had serious side effects. But as being a young and healthy person myself in the mid twenties, I don't see a favorable risk/reward ratio for me. I don't know if I ever had Covid, because I never had symptoms and never made a test so far. If I had a serious disease or so, it would be a different case and I would likely take the vaccine. You have to do what feels right for you, but personally I feel a bit differently. Sure, if you think you have an underlying condition or allergy that may make it dangerous for you to take the vaccine then you should consult your doctor (you = anyone). The long term negative side effects from swine flu, to my knowledge, were only narcolepsy ("only" meaning that it was the only serious long term side effect to my knowledge). But even so it was like 300 people out of 90 million worldwide who got the vaccine. That's a very small percentage. The other thing is that swine flu itself causes narcolepsy. Similar to how some who got the Moderna vaccine later developed guillain-barré syndrome. Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus. 1.16B people have been vaccinated worldwide since March 2020. That's a ton of data. Not 10 years of data, I know. But there is no reason to think it will be any different (especially with mRNA vaccines imo) than other vaccines over the centuries. If the fear of long time effects is greater than the fear of COVID, then that's one's personal choice. The flip side to that though, as everyone here knows, is how easily COVID is transmissible from healthy asymptomatic young people, to the elderly or those with underlying health issues. Lastly, and then I promise I'll shut up These new variants, Delta and Lambda (and who knows what is coming next) are showing that they don't discriminate between older and younger people. Every doctor/nurse I have seen interviewed in the past few weeks almost always says they are stunned at the amount of young people who are getting severely ill and dying. COVID 2.0 is much different than the original strain last year. the NY Times just published this a few hours ago: www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults-sicker.htmlIs the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’?Physicians working in Covid-19 hot spots across the U.S. say that the patients in their hospitals are not like the patients they saw last year. Almost always unvaccinated, the new arrivals tend to be younger. And they seem sicker.---- Anyway good luck with what everyone decides to do and please stay safe.
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 4:04:24 GMT
One other quick thing. This past year and a half I have become really interested in Vitamin D. I have done a lot of reading on it as it pertains to not only COVID, but overall health. More and more research is coming out showing how most of the world is Vitamin D deficient. It used to be thought of as only being important to calcium absorption in the body, but we now know it does much much more. Vitamin D is absorbed through the skin via sunlight and then turns into a hormone once inside the body. Not having that hormone we get problems with gene regulation and our immune systems go out of whack. As it relates to COVID (or Sars-Cov-2 and Cov-1), there is strong evidence that having balanced Vitamin D levels pre-COVID infection help to increase levels of ACE2 receptor (the receptor which the Covid spike protein binds to and up-regulates into the lungs). The increase in ACE2 helps block that up-regulation. That is a very very brief summary.
Again, I started taking it for overall health benefits and hope that in doing so it's given a boost to my natural COVID defenses. *I don't believe Vitamin D can be used as or should be thought of as a first-line therapeutic once someone has COVID* I know Vitamin C and D have been popular COVID remedies in the conspiracy theory circles, and I am definitely not saying that. One's Vitamin D levels need to already be optimum before Sars-Cov-2 enters the body. I have been taking a daily 5,000IU supplement of Vitamin D3 for over a year now and can honestly say I notice a difference in overall energy. It's been very fascinating to learn about Vitamin D's role in the body. In case anyone is interested here is a really awesome video by Dr. Roger Seheult, MD Univ of CA that breaks down the recent research:
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 4:06:58 GMT
Oh! And here is another good video with Dr. Seheult being interviewed by vitamin guru Dr. Rhonda Patrick. I like both of these doctors because they are unbiased, easy to understand, and always cite the research: Skip to 21:00 if interested:
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 4:10:07 GMT
OK last one. This is Dr. Patrick on Joe Rogan. I forgot to mention how research has drawn a connection between Vitamin D deficiency and obesity and inflammation. Conditions that we know COVID likes:
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Post by magnus123 on Aug 5, 2021 9:11:05 GMT
I honestly think that it depends on age and other diseases that you may have. Risk/Reward for older people is obviously in favor of the vaccine. With younger populations and kids, the risk/reward is maybe a different one. There were also higher numbers of heart complications in 20-30 yo men. The question is then: How big is the risk of getting serious implications with Covid in this age, if you are healthy? Probably very very low. So, the risk/reward changes there f. e. If you remember, the swine flu vaccine also had some very damaging long term side effects that were unknown in the beginning. Everyone in my family had Biontech and no one had serious side effects. But as being a young and healthy person myself in the mid twenties, I don't see a favorable risk/reward ratio for me. I don't know if I ever had Covid, because I never had symptoms and never made a test so far. If I had a serious disease or so, it would be a different case and I would likely take the vaccine. You have to do what feels right for you, but personally I feel a bit differently. Sure, if you think you have an underlying condition or allergy that may make it dangerous for you to take the vaccine then you should consult your doctor (you = anyone). The long term negative side effects from swine flu, to my knowledge, were only narcolepsy ("only" meaning that it was the only serious long term side effect to my knowledge). But even so it was like 300 people out of 90 million worldwide who got the vaccine. That's a very small percentage. The other thing is that swine flu itself causes narcolepsy. Similar to how some who got the Moderna vaccine later developed guillain-barré syndrome. Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus. 1.16B people have been vaccinated worldwide since March 2020. That's a ton of data. Not 10 years of data, I know. But there is no reason to think it will be any different (especially with mRNA vaccines imo) than other vaccines over the centuries. If the fear of long time effects is greater than the fear of COVID, then that's one's personal choice. The flip side to that though, as everyone here knows, is how easily COVID is transmissible from healthy asymptomatic young people, to the elderly or those with underlying health issues. Lastly, and then I promise I'll shut up These new variants, Delta and Lambda (and who knows what is coming next) are showing that they don't discriminate between older and younger people. Every doctor/nurse I have seen interviewed in the past few weeks almost always says they are stunned at the amount of young people who are getting severely ill and dying. COVID 2.0 is much different than the original strain last year. the NY Times just published this a few hours ago: www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults-sicker.htmlIs the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’?Physicians working in Covid-19 hot spots across the U.S. say that the patients in their hospitals are not like the patients they saw last year. Almost always unvaccinated, the new arrivals tend to be younger. And they seem sicker.---- Anyway good luck with what everyone decides to do and please stay safe. Please don't think that I'm a crazy anti-vaxxer or how they are called. I have every vaccine that makes sense for me since being a child and I really appreciate it to not have a risk for Tetanus and so on. A wonderful achievement. I haven't seen any significant fatality rate in young age populations yet due to Lambda or Delta or whatsoever. And while becoming more infectious, the mortality rate of the variants are declining. That's also what INMB is saying their press release. That's very often the case with mutations. And it should be also noted that mass vaccinations are potentially pressuring the virus to mutate in order to survive. "Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus." This sounds very speculative in my opinion. I also don't buy the argument that I would protect other people when vaccinated. People at risk are well protected with the vaccine and don't need me to do this for them, because I'm still infectious with the vaccine. No one should be pressured into one or another direction. No one has to talk about his vaccination status, because it is a very private and sensible health information and personal choice. And the religious spirit of the hardcore covid vaxxers is really as scary as it is the case with anti vaxxers. This sounds maybe not appealing to anyone here, but I studied philosophy for years and I have to question everything what's going on. Always open for discussion. My basic argumentation in this discussion is the following: 1. The vaccine protects elderly people and people at risk 2. The vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of the virus 2.1 -> Therefore no obligation to force young people to vaccinate (elderly people are already protected) 3. Young people have an extremely low risk for serious implications by Covid 3.1 -> 18+ people can take the vaccinate if they want. Prioritizing young people with serious health conditions first 3.2 -> A healthy young person shouldn't be forced in any way (no discrimination) 3.3. -> Special requirements for kids. No social pressure in this population (f.e. "you will kill your grandma without the vaccine" - it's unethical and untrue) 3.3.1. -> The society has to protect kids against governments and parents (in both extreme ways: protect them against hardcore-vaxxers and against hardcore anti-vaxxers) 4. A vaccine is a very private and personal health information 4.1. -> No obligation to share this information with other people under social pressure (f.e. "Are you already vaccinated?" - Why should I tell you that?) 5. All people have equal rights 5.1. -> Not dividing mankind into vaccinated and unvaccinated - it destroys so many things we achieved during the last 400 years
I think that this argumentation sums it up why I'm not yet vaccinated. I'll maybe do it if the situation changes.
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 9:41:29 GMT
You have to do what feels right for you, but personally I feel a bit differently. Sure, if you think you have an underlying condition or allergy that may make it dangerous for you to take the vaccine then you should consult your doctor (you = anyone). The long term negative side effects from swine flu, to my knowledge, were only narcolepsy ("only" meaning that it was the only serious long term side effect to my knowledge). But even so it was like 300 people out of 90 million worldwide who got the vaccine. That's a very small percentage. The other thing is that swine flu itself causes narcolepsy. Similar to how some who got the Moderna vaccine later developed guillain-barré syndrome. Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus. 1.16B people have been vaccinated worldwide since March 2020. That's a ton of data. Not 10 years of data, I know. But there is no reason to think it will be any different (especially with mRNA vaccines imo) than other vaccines over the centuries. If the fear of long time effects is greater than the fear of COVID, then that's one's personal choice. The flip side to that though, as everyone here knows, is how easily COVID is transmissible from healthy asymptomatic young people, to the elderly or those with underlying health issues. Lastly, and then I promise I'll shut up These new variants, Delta and Lambda (and who knows what is coming next) are showing that they don't discriminate between older and younger people. Every doctor/nurse I have seen interviewed in the past few weeks almost always says they are stunned at the amount of young people who are getting severely ill and dying. COVID 2.0 is much different than the original strain last year. the NY Times just published this a few hours ago: www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults-sicker.htmlIs the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’?Physicians working in Covid-19 hot spots across the U.S. say that the patients in their hospitals are not like the patients they saw last year. Almost always unvaccinated, the new arrivals tend to be younger. And they seem sicker.---- Anyway good luck with what everyone decides to do and please stay safe. Please don't think that I'm a crazy anti-vaxxer or how they are called. I have every vaccine that makes sense for me since being a child and I really appreciate it to not have a risk for Tetanus and so on. A wonderful achievement. I haven't seen any significant fatality rate in young age populations yet due to Lambda or Delta or whatsoever. And while becoming more infectious, the mortality rate of the variants are declining. That's also what INMB is saying their press release. That's very often the case with mutations. And it should be also noted that mass vaccinations are potentially pressuring the virus to mutate in order to survive. "Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus." This sounds very speculative in my opinion. I also don't buy the argument that I would protect other people when vaccinated. People at risk are well protected with the vaccine and don't need me to do this for them, because I'm still infectious with the vaccine. No one should be pressured into one or another direction. No one has to talk about his vaccination status, because it is a very private and sensible health information and personal choice. And the religious spirit of the hardcore covid vaxxers is really as scary as it is the case with anti vaxxers. This sounds maybe not appealing to anyone here, but I studied philosophy for years and I have to question everything what's going on. Always open for discussion. My basic argumentation in this discussion is the following: 1. The vaccine protects elderly people and people at risk 2. The vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of the virus 2.1 -> Therefore no obligation to force young people to vaccinate (elderly people are already protected) 3. Young people have an extremely low risk for serious implications by Covid 3.1 -> 18+ people can take the vaccinate if they want. Prioritizing young people with serious health conditions first 3.2 -> A healthy young person shouldn't be forced in any way (no discrimination) 3.3. -> Special requirements for kids. No social pressure in this population (f.e. "you will kill your grandma without the vaccine" - it's unethical and untrue) 3.3.1. -> The society has to protect kids against governments and parents (in both extreme ways: protect them against hardcore-vaxxers and against hardcore anti-vaxxers) 4. A vaccine is a very private and personal health information 4.1. -> No obligation to share this information with other people under social pressure (f.e. "Are you already vaccinated?" - Why should I tell you that?) 5. All people have equal rights 5.1. -> Not dividing mankind into vaccinated and unvaccinated - it destroys so many things we achieved during the last 400 years
I think that this argumentation sums it up why I'm not yet vaccinated. I'll maybe do it if the situation changes. I know you are not an anti-vaxxer and I hope it didn't sound like I was suggesting that. I agree with some things on your list, and not others. But that's OK. I am definitely don't think anyone should be forced to get the vaccine. Based on the literature I have read and continue to read as the situation changes, the benefits far outweigh the risks for everyone, imo. I'll leave it at that. Whatever you do, just stay safe and healthy through all of this. I don't want to go on that boat trip alone!
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Post by JHam on Aug 5, 2021 9:53:57 GMT
You have to do what feels right for you, but personally I feel a bit differently. Sure, if you think you have an underlying condition or allergy that may make it dangerous for you to take the vaccine then you should consult your doctor (you = anyone). The long term negative side effects from swine flu, to my knowledge, were only narcolepsy ("only" meaning that it was the only serious long term side effect to my knowledge). But even so it was like 300 people out of 90 million worldwide who got the vaccine. That's a very small percentage. The other thing is that swine flu itself causes narcolepsy. Similar to how some who got the Moderna vaccine later developed guillain-barré syndrome. Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus. 1.16B people have been vaccinated worldwide since March 2020. That's a ton of data. Not 10 years of data, I know. But there is no reason to think it will be any different (especially with mRNA vaccines imo) than other vaccines over the centuries. If the fear of long time effects is greater than the fear of COVID, then that's one's personal choice. The flip side to that though, as everyone here knows, is how easily COVID is transmissible from healthy asymptomatic young people, to the elderly or those with underlying health issues. Lastly, and then I promise I'll shut up These new variants, Delta and Lambda (and who knows what is coming next) are showing that they don't discriminate between older and younger people. Every doctor/nurse I have seen interviewed in the past few weeks almost always says they are stunned at the amount of young people who are getting severely ill and dying. COVID 2.0 is much different than the original strain last year. the NY Times just published this a few hours ago: www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults-sicker.htmlIs the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’?Physicians working in Covid-19 hot spots across the U.S. say that the patients in their hospitals are not like the patients they saw last year. Almost always unvaccinated, the new arrivals tend to be younger. And they seem sicker.---- Anyway good luck with what everyone decides to do and please stay safe. Please don't think that I'm a crazy anti-vaxxer or how they are called. I have every vaccine that makes sense for me since being a child and I really appreciate it to not have a risk for Tetanus and so on. A wonderful achievement. I haven't seen any significant fatality rate in young age populations yet due to Lambda or Delta or whatsoever. And while becoming more infectious, the mortality rate of the variants are declining. That's also what INMB is saying their press release. That's very often the case with mutations. And it should be also noted that mass vaccinations are potentially pressuring the virus to mutate in order to survive. "Those same people would have developed guillain-barré syndrome w/o being vaccinated just from their body fighting the off the virus." This sounds very speculative in my opinion.I also don't buy the argument that I would protect other people when vaccinated. People at risk are well protected with the vaccine and don't need me to do this for them, because I'm still infectious with the vaccine. No one should be pressured into one or another direction. No one has to talk about his vaccination status, because it is a very private and sensible health information and personal choice. And the religious spirit of the hardcore covid vaxxers is really as scary as it is the case with anti vaxxers. This sounds maybe not appealing to anyone here, but I studied philosophy for years and I have to question everything what's going on. Always open for discussion. My basic argumentation in this discussion is the following: 1. The vaccine protects elderly people and people at risk 2. The vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of the virus 2.1 -> Therefore no obligation to force young people to vaccinate (elderly people are already protected) 3. Young people have an extremely low risk for serious implications by Covid 3.1 -> 18+ people can take the vaccinate if they want. Prioritizing young people with serious health conditions first 3.2 -> A healthy young person shouldn't be forced in any way (no discrimination) 3.3. -> Special requirements for kids. No social pressure in this population (f.e. "you will kill your grandma without the vaccine" - it's unethical and untrue) 3.3.1. -> The society has to protect kids against governments and parents (in both extreme ways: protect them against hardcore-vaxxers and against hardcore anti-vaxxers) 4. A vaccine is a very private and personal health information 4.1. -> No obligation to share this information with other people under social pressure (f.e. "Are you already vaccinated?" - Why should I tell you that?) 5. All people have equal rights 5.1. -> Not dividing mankind into vaccinated and unvaccinated - it destroys so many things we achieved during the last 400 years
I think that this argumentation sums it up why I'm not yet vaccinated. I'll maybe do it if the situation changes. Forgot one thing. Here is one paper I have read that discusses guillain-barré syndrome and coronaviruses/influenza (just so you know I'm not making it up): www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.674922/fullConclusion, Future Directions, and New Insights During the recent pandemic, many cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome have been reported to be associated with COVID-19. In this review article, we have discussed the possibility of a relationship between SARS-CoV-2 infection and Guillain-Barré syndrome and potential pathogenic mechanisms based on current and past knowledge. It is noteworthy that during the recent pandemic, there have been several case reports of the para-infectious pattern of GBS according to SARS-CoV-2 infection. On the other hand, GBS may be part of the “long COVID-19 syndrome”. Therefore, Guillain-Barré syndrome associated with SARS-CoV-2 in addition to the classic post-infectious profile might follow the pattern of a para-infectious as reported in Guillain-Barré syndrome associated with the Zika virus. Identifying and linking para- and post-infectious neurological diseases such as GBS to a pandemic is confusing. Besides, accurate and timely diagnosis is critical. Therefore, considering that there may be a link between SARS-CoV-2 infection and GBS is helpful in rapid diagnosis of patients. We have also highlighted that the possible role of indirect immune- mediated mechanisms, such as molecular mimicry and neuroinflammation, is more than direct viral invasion in the development of COVID-19 related GBS. Also further molecular studies are needs to investigate the exact mechanism that leads to the GBS following the SARS-CoV-2 infection.
In conclusion, although many studies support the link between SARS-CoV-2 infection and GBS, more evidence is needed to confirm their relationship and describe its exact mechanism. Epidemiological evidence associated with the suspected infectious agent and GBS should be considered to approve the association between COVID-19 and GBS. However, based on recent reports, we suggest that all newly diagnosed Guillain-Barré cases should be tested for SARS-CoV-2 infection in the current pandemic, even if they have no respiratory complaints.
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Post by magnus123 on Aug 5, 2021 9:59:20 GMT
I know you are not an anti-vaxxer and I hope it didn't sound like I was suggesting that. I agree with some things on your list, and not others. But that's OK. I am definitely don't think anyone should be forced to get the vaccine. Based on the literature I have read and continue to read as the situation changes, the benefits far outweigh the risks for everyone, imo. I'll leave it at that. Whatever you do, just stay safe and healthy through all of this. I don't want to go on that boat trip alone! No, everything okay. I'm just saying it, because there are so many people who can't differentiate. Not you, but we have many readers here and I wanted to make that clear. It would be also funny to have anti vaxxers in a biotech forum My plan is to continue to monitor the situation and maybe change my decision. I'm absolutely open to that and not dogmatic in any way. I also hope that gov will start shipping vaccines into 3rd world countries. Old people there are much more desperate than I am. I'm optimistic that I'll make it to our boat trip! If I get some serious complications, I'll kindly ask RJ for compassionate use of Quellor And thanks for providing a source regarding GBS.
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